Mass Effect Wiki talk:Manual of Style/Missions
Infobox proposal For the last couple of days I've been working on a template that shows the mission summary as a floating box. There could still be some work that needs to be done on the layout of data and/or styling, but I won't go into it unless the template (or the concept of the template) is approved. For now there are two versions of the template: #Two column layout: show the information in two columns with the labels on the left. #One column layout: show the information as header and content below it. I tend to prefer the second one, it is more spacious and give more room for the actual data. I have some issues with displaying the image on the first box, but it could be fixed if anyone wants to see the full effect... --silverstrike 20:13, February 11, 2010 (UTC) :Second one looks a lot better. :Shouldn't renegade be red? :Also, could the -"Cerberus funding", "Credits Found"- be indented, like in the original summary? :For example: :*Total Credits: 39,000 :**Zaheed Funding 15,000 :**Credits Found: 24,000 ::--Spoo12 20:21, February 11, 2010 (UTC) ::I don't really see how indentation could benefit the second example - I could move the total credits to be on the first one or perhaps include the total in the Credits title. It's doable in any case. ::Regarding the colors: I took the renegade/paragon colors from the achievement images (they were green-ish and blue-ish) but that could be easily changed - although, I must state that I giving me the task of choosing colors is a mistake :p --silverstrike 20:31, February 11, 2010 (UTC) :::Most missions or assignments don't have various rewards for paragon/renegade. How does it look with only one column? --Spoo12 20:45, February 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::It only shows the Credits header with the data below it - without the paragon/renegade headers. I am trying to make the template suitable in any situation that may arise. --silverstrike 20:48, February 11, 2010 (UTC) (Reset indent) I'm still not entirely sure that it's an improvement on a simple bulleted list, but in the spirit of constructive criticism, I offer the following thoughts: *I much prefer the second version to the first – multiple indent levels in infoboxes are visually unappealing; *I suggest using a paler versions of green and red for the morality headers; *parameter cerebruscredits ought to be renamed (creditsfunded? fundingcredits and fundingfrom?); *experience ought to either be a single line, with a single unmodified value right justified, or else two lines (one for each, also with values right justified); *resource numbers ought to be right justified; and *additional rewards should either be right justified, or else perhaps just a bulleted list of items without headings (it's quite busy and crowded otherwise). I also tend to agree with User talk:Tullis#New Template Suggestions, that a focus on results will tend to detract from the rest of the article. I would strongly prefer not to have the information collapsible if it is inline in the mission summary section: it just adds an extra click. Moreover, I would argue that a highly stylized inline infobox would detract from the article as a whole by acting as an unwanted visual focus – the simple bulleted list is much preferable as an inline element. --DRY 15:02, February 14, 2010 (UTC) :In regards to the collapsible feature, I've created a template to tackle this issue (User:Silverstrike/Sandbox/Try), that depend on a site-wide JavaScript code (User:Silverstrike/monaco.js). mediawiki has several extensions that deal with collapsible/hidden content - unfortunately none of them installed on wikia. The JS code will not interfere or cause problems on and only work on elements that has the attribute id="togglecontent". :For the rest of your input: :*Parameter naming: I don't really understand what are you suggesting. :*Experience: I tried to calculate the number based on contributor input - it can either be a number with or without the 25% achievement experience bonus. I can enter a line-break between the two values, I just don't see what good it will do. :*I'll try to change the justification for the Resources and Additional rewards to make it less crowded. :I think that outputting the mission summary like this gives some color to the page and look somewhat better then the bulleted list, in my opinion, anyway. Adding the option of collapsing the table will remove the entire box for those who don't want to see it (we could leave the title, image, and caption in place and hide the rest to leave some styling to the page). --silverstrike 17:28, February 18, 2010 (UTC) ::I personally don't care for collapsing boxes in any case. The parameter names should follow some sort of uniform naming scheme; the cerebruscredits name is misleading since the funding agency is not always Cerberus. The point with Experience is that it should be uniform in appearance with the other elements: a left justified tag and a right justified value. Splitting across two lines allows the first tag to be something like "Base" and the second "LSM". In the final analysis, I still don't really see any benefit given the wide degree of variation in the information. --DRY 18:16, February 18, 2010 (UTC) :::I suggest adding new data in the summary. Such as expected enemies ie Mechs, Biotics, etc. Also there are some assignments that have a time limit, should that be added as a Yes/No section? --(Lone Hunter 21:06, February 26, 2010 (UTC)) ::::The real issue is whether or not this template will ever be used - although I see the merits of your suggestions. --silverstrike 21:11, February 26, 2010 (UTC) :::::I think it looks great now. Great background and colors that shouldn't grab too much attention from the actual article. :::::I still think that renegade should be red, preferably a pale red that doesn't detract much from the rest of the template. :::::The experience column should focus on the unmodified value. Maybe the modified value should be put in paranthesis instead. :::::Also, I would vote for the template to be used, as the current Mission summary looks very dull in comparison. A little color can do so much. :::::--Spoo12 22:21, February 26, 2010 (UTC) (Reset indent) I still think that we might be better served by a less crowded infobox. I still think that the summary should probably be left out of the box altogether. Perhaps a the box could concentrate on the who/what/where/when/how of the mission acquisition and location? That might be more tractable: there is an awful lot a variability in the mission summaries. --DRY 22:32, February 26, 2010 (UTC) :I can make the changes to the template - but I'm somewhat reluctant to make those changes if afterward the result is that we discontinue the use of it. If you think that the general idea and the basic layout of the template is in the right direction, then we can start listing what needs to be changed in order for it to be integrated into relevant articles. :I don't see much more variability in mission summary then the example above, but even then, I can make the template accommodate those needs - if we want to show them, that is. --silverstrike 22:45, February 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Well, I would suggest looking through all of the missions and assignments and tallying up all of the various conditional or circumstantial bits just to be sure. I may be unduly pessimistic, but since I watch every edit that goes by I do get a sense of the trend. And even if it were possible, I don't know if it's desirable, either from the standpoint of implementation complexity or it editorial character. Like Tullis, I also feel that there is no need to cram the whole article (summary, enemies and all) into the infobox. For other articles it serves primarily as an aesthetic element rather than an informational one. Even for planets, virtually all of the data present is just "color" rather than gameplay affecting. --DRY 22:56, February 26, 2010 (UTC) :::There aren't too many variants of the summary. The Zaeed one is very different from most of them, as most just have experience, credits and minerals. Some missions have additional upgrades (like heavy weapon ammo), but these can easily be put into the "Additional" column. Most other things that are not standard would also probably fit well into the Additonal column. :::It is probably mostly for color, but it does make it easier to read, especially for long articles. --Spoo12 23:05, February 26, 2010 (UTC) :::I can certainly understand your point regarding "cramming" all the information into one infobox - it may be beneficial only to list the who/what/where/when/how of the assignment/mission rather then every credit or resource you can find on the mission, and I doubt that I can be really objective on the topic, primarily due to the time spent on creating and styling the template. :::Another thing is that on the one hand you state that we need to go through every assignment article to make sure that the template cover every eventuality, but on the other hand you believe that we shouldn't list all of the above, regardless of the template compatibility. Before continuing with the template we need to decide in which direction to take it, or perhaps investing time in a different template that will complement the articles rather then complicate it. --silverstrike 23:14, February 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::Just to clarify: I suggested that if you wish to pursue your original intent, it would be wise to perform the research; that I would not myself undertake the task, given the choice, is a separate issue. That is to say: you are welcome to go ahead, but for my part I don't think it is worthwhile. I do not, of course, have the last word on any of this: if the general consensus is to have more information rather than less, then the details of the formatting (which are quite minor) can be hashed out. --DRY 23:20, February 26, 2010 (UTC) :::::What about if we try it on a few missions/assignments and see how it looks/works out? It does not mean that it's final, but it would help if we see it in action rather than speculate. --Spoo12 23:54, February 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I appreciate the spirit of negotiation and compromise. However, experimentation is what sandbox pages are for. I'd rather not roll something out, have everyone jump on the bandwagon, and then potentially have to revisit dozens of pages as circumstances change. (I already spend several hours a day trying to stay on top of everything.) An audit based on Assignments#Mass Effect 2 and Missions#Mass Effect 2 would help: if everything can reasonably be covered, then it's worth considering proceeding. Otherwise, if not, some reformulation is in order. --DRY 03:27, February 27, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Went through all the assignments and missions and found the following issues: :::::::*Normandy Crash Site: Experience reward does not fit with the current formula - fixed formula :::::::*N7: Blood Pack Communications Relay: A note regarding the additional reward - the template has no "notes" field - added "notes" parameter :::::::*N7: Eclipse Smuggling Depot: Reward is based on assignment success rate - issue same as above - added "notes" parameter :::::::The above can be fixed by adding a "note" parameter to the template and by fixing the experience reward formula. --silverstrike 05:37, February 27, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Issues with the template compatibility fixed. --silverstrike 17:27, February 27, 2010 (UTC) Changes Enhancing current template: *Reviewing of parameter names to follow a template standard - changed parameter names *Change "Morality credits" background color to shades of blue (paragon) and orange (renegade) - color changed *Split "Experience Reward" into two lines and set alignment accordingly - "Experience Reward" was split and columns aligned *Right justify every column with numerical value for clarity *(Suggestion) merge "Experience Reward" and "Resources" under one heading *(Suggestion) making the infobox partially collapsible to limit its size and the amount of information shown (i.e. show only the image, caption, and special rewards) *(Suggestion) removing the "title" column from the "Additional Rewards" section to allow more room for the actual values (i.e. from the example above: removal of "weapons", "upgrades", etc.) *(Suggestion) use of definition list instead of a table to show "Additional Rewards". Additionally, group by type (upgrade, bonus power, etc.) rather then randomly inside a table. Example: Upgrades: Heavy Weapon Ammo Assault Rifle Damage Weapons: M-451 Firestorm The list above summarize most of the points discussed on the page and is open for additional discussion/addition to best suit the needs of relevant articles. --silverstrike 02:29, February 27, 2010 (UTC) :I think that orange color looks way too bright in comparison with the rest of the colors. What about this color: #a66363 or similar red? --Spoo12 04:46, February 27, 2010 (UTC) ::Made the change. The color looks good to me... --silverstrike 05:41, February 27, 2010 (UTC) Question about experience points Upon finishing Mass Effect 2, a player gets a 25% experience bonus on all future playthroughs. So right now, a lot of the experience point scores in the mission and assignment articles use the +25% figure. 1250 xp instead of 1000 xp and 50 xp instead of 40 xp. However, there's a lot of articles that use the first playthrough points. So, for consistency's sake, which one should be used? —Seburo 03:53, February 14, 2010 (UTC) :For consistency, I think we should use the original experience gained. If someone has gained the acheivement, he/she could easily just add the multiplier herself. --Spoo12 04:01, February 14, 2010 (UTC) Format for mission walkthroughs in ME3, esp. concerning items / loot Walkthrough pages don't all have the same format for listing items you can loot. I think there should be some uniformity there, but I feel like I should seek input so that we can reach consensus on a format before I just jump in and make them all look the way I want them to look. Preliminary Question: Should missions include a separate list of loot and locations? If so, how and where? I think a bulleted list of "(item): (description of location)" separate from the walkthrough would give completionists a checklist of when to pay attention. In Priority: Sur'Kesh, for example, seeing that there are no more items until you hit the next checkpoint spares you time exploring each and every corner of the building. Arrae: Ex-Cerberus Scientists does not separate lootable items from the text of the walkthrough, so you either spend time re-reading the walkthrough to make sure you got everything or ignoring the page and exploring the entire map anyway. I would propose a list format as I have modified in Attican Traverse: Krogan Team - a bulleted list of "(item): (description of location)" separate from the walkthrough. Whether or not the item list would go under the walkthrough header would depend on how clearly the sections could be defined. For instance, Grissom Academy: Emergency Evacuation has Items as a subsection under the Walkthrough header. The items are bolded but not bulleted. I think bulleting the items would make a clearer visual distinction. FreyAlfheimr 23:23, March 17, 2012 (UTC) :And this doesn't fit with how every other walkthrough is formatted. Even when this was introduced in ME2, all walkthroughs just integerated it with the text. Something like this just breaks the flow of the article. There is no way this could look nice on a page and currently none of the current ME3 walkthroughs are formatted correctly anyway. Once there is more time, they will be brought into line. Lancer1289 01:06, March 18, 2012 (UTC) Updating this I'm just going to leave this note here, that these days most ME3 missions have "Aftermath" sections, and that most missions from all games have "Preparation" sections. So we could conceivably update this article to provide guidance on them. No biggie, just mentioning. Cattlesquat (talk) 13:37, September 18, 2013 (UTC)